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Dialogue Mass & Mass in Vernacular,
Part of the SSPX Agenda

Note to the Reader:

About 15 years ago, Msgr. Patrick Perez – may God give rest to his soul – answered the question of one of our readers on TIA website. The reader was perplexed over seeing that in his SSPX chapel in New York the priests were favoring dialogue Mass and said Mass only according to the 1962 Missal, which Fr. Perez had criticized in an article we posted.

Msgr. Perez, then a simple priest, responded showing great sadness by the fact that SSPX is pushing the dialogue Mass to be the norm in all its chapels. He pointed out some examples of the SSPX progressivist trend in Europe and its fraudulent arguments to defend it.

Two days after his answer had been posted and was producing good responses, Fr. Perez called TIA and asked that we remove his answer from our website because he was receiving threats from the SSPX priests, who told him that if it were not taken down immediatedly he would no longer have access to the SSPX Bishops to administer the Sacrament of Confirmation to his parishioners.

So, for the good of the souls of those parishioners, he asked us to remove the post, which we did.

Today, Msgr. Perez has passed away and the priests of the SSPX are struggling to take over his Our Lady Help of Christian Chapel, pretending they represent everything that Msgr. Perez always thought and taught.

Since the previous threats no longer have any effect, TIA resolved to re-publish that answer to prove that this pretension is false. Below, our readers can verify what actually was the thinking of Msgr. Perez on this topic.

We kept the exact same text he wrote without any editing, subtraction or addition.

TIA hopes it may shed some light on the picture.


    Atila S. Guimarães, editor


Dear Fr. Patrick Perez,

I read your recent article The Missal Crisis of '62 on the TIA website with your concerns about the motu proprios of recent years and I am curious for you to comment on a couple things.

I attend an SSPX chapel in northern NY and the “dialogue Mass” is said there. One of the former pastors wanted to “kill it” from the chapel, and to my and my wife’s minds it always reminded us of the Novus Ordo. I told Father at the time of our conversation that I would back him up in the chapel if he tried to kill it, but it never happened and I don’t know why.

Also, lately our present pastor has introduced and/or allowed the “new” practice of having the congregation say aloud the triple Domine non sum dignus... before Communion, which I had not heard done in any Traditional chapel before now... also, reminding one of the Novus Ordo.

Since the SSPX uses the 1962 Missal officially, but maintains the second Confiteor for the faithful and “allows” these other things mentioned above, I can only conclude that the most accurate thing that can be said is that they use a “hybrid” Missal in practice.

I would whole-heartedly support an effort to print a pre-1962 (non-hybrid) missal, but my burning question is why hasn’t this been done already? Why hasn’t the SSPX done it? I bought a ’62 because that’s what was advertised in the Angelus.

I’m trying to be meek or humble, but is one to check one’s brains at the door when he joins a chapel of a given Traditionalist group?

Comments, directions?


    Traditional Catholic, married, father of 5


Fr. Perez responds:

Dear B.L.,

Greetings! TIA forwarded your question to me, so I am answering you.

The subject of the 1962 Missal is a very touchy one with regards to the SSPX, as, obviously, they use that Missal exclusively as far as I can tell. Their reasons for using it, however, do not seem to me all that valid.

I have discussed this with some priests of the Society, and what they give as reasons for using this Missal are:

1. Archbishop Lefebvre approved of it and used it, and

2. Since this is the last edition of the Missale still recognizable as traditional, contains no heresy, and was widely accepted at the time of its issue, then under obedience we must accept and use it.

In response to Reason 1, I would say that Archbishop Lefebvre used the interim Missale of 1965 for nine years in the Society before his seminarians virtually forced him to use the traditional Missal, so that cannot be a good reason.

Furthermore, remember that since the death of the Archbishop the yardstick of what the Society would do in most cases is not what is most reasonable in all cases (such as this), but what the Archbishop did while alive. Hardly logical.

Another note on that point: I know a priest of the Society who knew the Archbishop quite well, and according to him the Archbishop was seriously considering making the pre-1955 Missale normative for the SSPX when, unfortunately for all of us, death took him.

In response to Reason 2, I would say that while it is unquestionably the last edition of the Missale recognizable as traditional, it is still quite compromised, as per the arguments in my article.

Why would a priest use a Missale with new rites introduced into it by a proven Freemason when there is an alternative available which we know is unadulterated? I believe myself no more obliged to use the 1962 Missale under obedience than I am obliged under obedience to accept the documents of Vatican II. One simply cannot be obliged to accept and propagate something opposed to the tradition of the Church, even liturgically.

As for it containing no heresy: possibly. But hula girls at Mass is not, strictly speaking, heretical, but neither is it appropriate. There are other reasons for rejecting something besides heresy.

As for why no one has yet reprinted the pre-1955 Missale Romanum, it simply comes down to "the bottom line". If SSPX is not going to use it (yet), then there goes a large percentage of the potential market. Likewise the Indult situation. If the 1962 is specified as a condition of the indult, then they won't be that interested in buying one either, and there goes the other greatest percentage of the potential market.

I am greatly disturbed and saddened that the Society is pushing ahead with its plan to make the "dialogue Mass" the norm in all its chapels. It is a precursor of the Novus Ordo, but remember who controls the Society: the French, and, to some extent, the Germans, and they have a virtual obsession with both the dialogue Mass and this notion of "full and active participation."

You would not believe what the typical SSPX Mass in Europe looks like! In some places, such as Germany, I have seen Society Masses done mostly in the vernacular, with the laity answering everything. Quite the mess.

By the way, if you question the dialogue Mass or this audience participation thing, they will usually give you a reprint of an Angelus article written some years ago which quotes three papal documents, although I use the word "quotes" loosely here. When you read these citations you are, indeed, left with the impression that Pope St. Pius X, and Pope Pius XII were in favor of such things, until you look up the documents quoted for yourself, and find that the author of the Angelus article, an SSPX priest and a Frenchman (Fr. de la Place), has conveniently grossly mistranslated or misquoted the original documents, and those Popes do not say or imply anything like what the article says they do. In my opinion this was quite unscholarly, if not downright deceptive.

I hope that I have sufficiently addressed your questions. If not, feel free to contact me again.

    In Cordibus Iesu et Mariae,

     Fr. Patrick J. Perez

Initially posted on September 26, 2007
Re-posted on May 5, 2022



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