What People are Commenting
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Counter-Revolution, Eucharist & New Mass
Why Did I Receive Graces at the Novus Ordo Mass?
Dear Mr. Guimarães,
May the peace of the Eucharistic Jesus and the Imaculata be with you.
We thank God for your response to the below email in the version of TIA Mail which was received on 01 June. Your help is much appreciated.
This should not be the case, but I am struggling with the information provided. It is clear and understandable and it confirms what I have been questioning for the last several years regarding the Novus Ordo, even before we started to attend the Traditional Latin Mass.
What I struggle with is the fact that I was raised after Vatican II so my exposure to Mass had always been the Novus Ordo. My wife and I have been raising our children under the Novus Ordo. I struggle also with this information because under the Novus Ordo I have come to love the Eucharistic Jesus and have come to love the Catholic faith more. It is difficult to understand how I have come to grow in the faith and desire the truth while still attending the Novus Ordo. Also, this information will not be very well accepted by some in my immediate family. Please pray for me that God may give my the rights words and the right time to share all the information that He has given me.
My desire is to glorify God, save my soul, and provide the opportunity for my family to save their souls. At this moments, this feels like a very heavy cross that God is calling me to carry.
You are in my prayers. May you have a blessed day.
In Christ's love,
M.G.
Quis ut Deus
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The Editor responds:
Dear Mr. M.G.,
Thank you for including me in your prayers. I appreciate it very much.
If I understand your perplexity well, it would be summarized in this way: How could I receive graces – such as an increase in my Eucharistic devotion – if the Novus Ordo Mass is wrong?
Grace can be given to a person in any situation, no matter how wrong it may be: at a Novus Ordo Mass, a Protestant service or even a Black Mass.
Many Protestants report that they got fed up with their heretical services, converted and looked for a Catholic Traditional Mass. We see that Divine Providence was giving them graces while they were attending those services.
In his novel La Bas (Down There), the famous Belgian writer Joris-Karl Huysmann described his attendance at a Black Mass said by an apostate priest and followed by a Satanic orgy, which included the explicit profanation of consecrated Hosts. Notwithstanding, in that period of his life he was receiving graces to convert and to be the good Catholic he later became.
These graces do not reveal that the Protestant services or the Black Masses were the source of the graces received by those attending them. The graces were given to them despite their attendance at those bad ceremonies.
So also, your Eucharistic devotion could increase when you were attending the Novus Ordo Mass, despite the fact that this Mass was made to decrease the role of the Holy Eucharist in the mind of Catholics.
Cordially,
A.S. Guimarães
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Provide More Evidence the New Mass
Has a Flavor of Protestantism
Has a Flavor of Protestantism
Thank you for the wealth of information provided on your website. In an age where there are tremendous difficulties in discerning truth, I appreciate your efforts to provide well-reasoned arguments that can be assessed about the state of the Church.
Regarding the article titled "The New Mass: A Flavor of Protestantism," there were two claims made about the development of the New Mass: First, about the inclusion of six Protestants in the commission to implement the liturgical reforms of Vatican II, and second, about Cardinal Bugnini's intent to appease Protestants with the reforms as per a 1965 statement in L'Osservatoire Romano.
I read an article from a different blog titled "Where Peter Is" where the author challenges these claims. For the first, he claims that the Vatican clarified the role of the six Protestants as "observers" rather than cooperators in the composition of the texts. For the second, he claims Cardinal Bugnini's famously quoted statement from 1965 is often mistranslated and taken out of context.
In your opinion, are the two refutes made by the author sound?
I am trying to assess whether it can be sinful to attend the Novus Ordo Mass due to the existence of a crisis in the Church. It seems like the two points above are often cited as evidence to support the affirmative, which is why I am seeking clarification about their credibility.
Thank you so much. God bless.
F.B.
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TIA responds:
Greetings F.B.,
The "denial" of the mentioned blogger that the six Protestants present while the Novus Ordo Mass was being elaborated were not "cooperators" but "observers" is vacuous. When a commission of not that many Catholic theologians (namely 42 but only 13 actually were present for the discussions) has six Protestant observers present the whole time to assure their agreement with the reforms being introduced, they do not need to have a pencil and paper in their hands to actually write a new text to be proposed.
They need only say "This pleases us," or even to say nothing and smile with an affirmative gesture of head. The theologians who were actually writing the new text – Bugnini, Antonelli, Lercaro, Boyer – would have no difficult understanding whether the text was pleasing or displeasing to the Protestants, and then to confirm or change that text accordingly.
So the qualification of "observer" or "cooperator" is absolutely irrelevant. Unless, or course, the person who raises this problem is trying to avoid accepting the real role the Protestants played because then it becomes evident that the New Mass was made to please them.
Regarding the second point – that Arch. Bugnini was quoted out of context – it seems another diversion to avoid concluding that the Novus Ordo Mass has a Protestant spirit.
To resolve your doubt, independent of whether the author you mention is honest or not, we suggest you to go to Chapter V of the book Theological and Moral Implications of the New Ordo Missae, which is considered one of the best studies of the Novus Ordo Mass available in the world. Chapter V deals specifically with the affinities the New Mass has with the Lutheran Supper. You may read it and come to your own conclusions.
One thing of which you should be convinced is this: If you want to be in the state of grace and to glorify God, you have to take a position, which will necessarily bring enemies. If you are not willing to defend God before men, then the problem is not a question of dogmatic precision of terms; it is a moral problem of deciding whether to concede to the dominant opinion or to have the courage to face it.
Cordially,
TIA correspondence desk
Posted July 12, 2022
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The opinions expressed in this section - What People Are Commenting - do not necessarily express those of TIA
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May the peace of the Eucharistic Jesus and the Imaculata be with you.
When you have a chance, could you respond to the below email sent on 02 June?
Also, what would be your suggestion to initially learn and understanding the Counter-Revolution? What actions can the laity take in this Counter-Revolution?
May God continue to bless all of your work.
In Christ's love,
M.G.
Quis ut Deus
The Editor responds:
Dear Mr. M.G.,
Thank you for your good wishes for me.
To begin to learn about and understand the Counter-Revolution I suggest that you read the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution by Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira. He gives the reader an overview of the last six centuries of History that is indispensable to situate ourselves in the present-day crisis in society and in the Catholic Church.
In the posting below, I will answer your other question.
Cordially,
A.S. Guimarães